***************************************** KIDCLUB Discussion UNICEF Saturday October 2, 1993 ***************************************** Participants: Bill Parks UNICEF Durham University, United Kingdom Salisbury KIDCLUB Keith Cooper, Delmar Elementary School (Maryland) age 10 Grade 6 Maggie Scarborough, St. Francis de Sales age 12 Grade 8 Patti Weeg Salisbury, Maryland - moderator Mike Burleigh London, United Kingdom - moderator KIDLINK IRC Server was not working so the participants sent e-mail back and forth...they were not discouraged! Questions prepared by Bill Parks: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ (a) Imagine that your country has been invaded and taken over by another country and its people: a country that forbids the use of any other language or culture than its own - one which forbids the practice of festivals (e.g. easter, christmas) or anything else cultural (discos, birthday parties, sports). What things would you have to give up or do in secret? How would you feel?" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keith: Hello Bill, I'm here with Patti. Keith: I think that I would try to go to another country to get help.I would feel terrible because I really couldn't do anything to help and I would definitely not want to speak in any other language than my own! Bill: What would you do if you were't able to get out of your own country because the borders were closed by the invading country? Keith: I would feel pretty bad, but to help my family I'd do anything. Keith: I would try (unison) to get a guard's uniform so I could cross the border Keith: If I couldn't celebrate my birthday it would feel as if I never grew at all. If I couldn't celebrate cristmas I wouldn't get any presents and I couldn't be with my whole family. It would make me pretty sad because I wouldn't see my family and I wouldn't celebrate the Lord's birthday. Bill: Would you try and celebrate these things in secret? How would you feel if this was the case (angry, sad...)? Would you try and get messages out of the country? What kind of messages? To whom? What would you say to people around the world about your position? Keith: I would celebrate in secret but I would be angry because I feel I should be able to celebrate in public. Bill: So, do you think celebrating birthdays and christmas in public should be a 'right' that children should have? Keith: Yes, kids should be able to celebrate special ocassions in public. Keith: Yes,I would try to get messages to other countries so we could be rescued. I would send S.O.S. messages to America. Bill: What other things in your life might you have to give up apart from birthdays and christmas? Patti: Bill, Mike is sending us mail too...Keith is happy! We are slow...bear with us. Bill: Keep thinking Keith, you're coming up with some great answers... Bill: What would you say in these messages? What would happen if it was the USA that has been invaded by the people of '#########' (an imaginary country)? Who would you go to for help? UNICEF can't help you with uniforms, but with many other things. What other things do you think you might need to help survive being invaded and being denied education, health care, food etc.? Keith: I would say that my country has been invaded. Bill, who are the invaders? Keith: Why are these people invading my country?! Bill: Why are these people invading your country? The ultimate question, Keith!! Why do you think wars and invasions happen? Keith: If the USA was being invaded then I would gather people so that we could fight back! I think people invade other countries because they want to be stronger then anybody else. Bill: Is there no way of preventing invasions before they happen, Keith? If there are, what ways can you think of? Keith: There is no way you can prevent invasions because you don't know when they are going to happen. Bill: That's true Keith, but very often invasions can be predicted and therefore prevented. What ways might they be prevented? Keith: If you know they are going to invade you should get ready by getting food together... Bill: What about talking to the country first and to the rest of the world about the situation? What would you say? Keith: Maggie has just joined us Bill: Hi Maggie, Sorry there's no irc, but sometimes these things happen.. ;-) welcome to our discussion on child rights. Keith is in an inspired mood today! Hope you will be too... Keith: We think that you should say that war isn't the answer, that you should live in peace! Maggie; I'd ask for help! Bill: I agree! But very often some adults think that war can settle things much quicker than peaceful negotiations. What would you say to them to make them see that war isn't the answer? Keith: I would say that why kill other people, including yourselves when you can solve the problem without spilling blood. Maggie: I don't think that war ever solves anything it just makes it worse . Bill: Yep! That's why *your* voices and those of kids like you should be heard! Keith: How do you feel about the bombing in London last night? Do you think it was the IRA? Bill: Good question, Keith. Over in the UK, there are many bomb attacks from the IRA. Like myself, most people in the UK are very angry with these attacks but we refuse to allow terrorists to get their own way through violence. About last night? I'm only thankful that only a few people were injured and no-one was killed, but even just injuries are enough to make me angry. I can only hope that, like yourselves, the problems in Northern Ireland can be settled peacefully. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- (b) "List all the things you feel that children need in order to live happy and healthy lives - think about what it would feel like to have all these things taken away e.g. your freedom to speak, to privacy, to a safe, healthly environment, to freedom from punishment and degrading treatment. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keith: THese are the rights that kids should have: Rights to speak freely A home Food Medicine Love... Bill: A great list of rights, Keith! How about being free to learn at school? Keith: If I could not have an education I would surely perish.If I was degraded... Mike Burleigh: Right on Keith! My son is 18 and he has balloons tied to his car outside the house.. he hasn't even driven his car yet! takes his driving test soon but all his birthday money is going into this project! Why is his car a project? well he wants to get to the white water canoe events in far away Wales.. and the car will make this possibleater canoe events in far away Wales.. These events in turn will enable him to gain the experience to become a high performance canoeist all his birthdays bring him canoeing kit and anything to do with canoeing signed Jonathan's Dad Mike Keith: If I didn't learn anything I would not be able to get a job so therefore I would get no money and I would die! Bill: But aren't there people in your country who haven't got jobs? How do they survive, and what right do you think there should be for people who can't get jobs? Keith: There should be centers for people who don't have a job. Bill: Having a centre for people with no jobs is a great idea. See if you can find which 'Article in the UN's Convention' this is.... [I'm hunting too] ;-) Maggie: Keith thinks article no. 32. Maggie: Is that the right answer? Keith and I like article no. 15. ... The right to meet with other kids. Bill: I like article 15 as well (though I have to admit I like all the articles!) ;-) Do you think KIDLINK is giving you a chance to experience the right of article 15? Bill: Well, that's certainly one that has to do with employment and children, but have a look at article 26. If people have no jobs then they should be entitled to social security... Bill: Let's hope that children can be free to be educated rather than work. Do you know of any countries where children often have to work... Think hard. I'll give you a clue: you're nearer than me???? Keith and Maggie: We think that it's Mexico because alot of kids are migrant workers. Maggie: One of my friends went to Mexico for the summer and said that they saw alot of kids working and also just coming up to you trying tosell you all all kinds of things. Bill: Heh, you two are great! Mexico is certainly one of the many countries in which children have to work. Brazil and Guatemala are another two. Why do you think these kids have to work? Keith: Because the adults make them work because they are to lazy to do it themselves. Maggie: Kids are cheap labor. Bill: Both these are true. Also some kids have to work because their parents have died or been imprisoned. The eldest children have to support the youngest. In other countries, children help their parents because the families are so poor they need all the 'working hands' they can get. Why do you think these families are poor? Maggie: If their parents have died or been imprisoned, then do they live by themselves or with another family? If they lived by themselves, then they'd have to work because full time because no one would be there to help support the family; if they lived with another family then there would be more people to work. Patti: I have a contact in Brazil(Pedro). The kids could write to him to invite him to join us here and tell us about the kids in Brazil. Bill: Fantastic! ;-) In a few weeks time, we'll spend a week or so discussing and learning about the Street Kids in South America. If we could get 'hot off the press' info that would be super and a real insight for our kids... ;-) Keith and Maggie: We could write a letter to Pedro in Brazil, and ask him about the street kids in Brazil. Bill: That would be great... Keith: Do you know anyone else in other countries that work for no money? Bill: I can think of a few. For example, in India and Bangladesh, children help their parents at home, often after school or they miss some days at school during the week. Very often, it is the girls who miss out on education while the boys are sent to school. Do you think this is fair? Why do you think this happens? Keith: No,I don't think it is fair!!!!!!!!!!!! I think this happens because people think girls want to work and don't care what they think!!! I also think girls should be able to go to school! Bill: you're not far off the truth. That's why it's important for girls (and women) to be given the equal opportunity to an education). What does Maggie think about this? Bill: There is an old saying that goes like this: "Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him all his life. Teach a woman, you feed a whole nation." What do you think this means? Do you like the saying? Bill: If you could only choose three out of the rights you've thought of, which ones would you choose (and I'll be really awkward and ask you WHY?) ;-) Keith: I would want... 1.Freedom to have a home...because I could not live without one. 2.Right to have food... 3.Right to have medicine... Bill: Now, out of those which *one* would you see as the most important? Take you're time deciding, it's a very difficult question (any thoughts Patti and Mike as to which one you'd choose?) ;-) Maggie: I think the most important right would be the right to have a home. Keith: I think The most important right would be the right to have food. Bill: These are great choices. What about Patti and Mike? I think I'd go for a different right: the right for all children to express an opinion, and to have that opinion taken into account... Maybe this discussion will end up fulfilling my choice? ;-) You're opinions are being heard... How would you feel if you had no way of saying what you felt? In other words your freedom of speech was taken away? Patti: ;-) I'm here, Bill, but letting the kids do the writing. They are great! Mike is not with us anymore, I don't think.... Keith: I would feel pretty bad if I couldn't say what I felt. Maggie: I would feel trapped because if I couldn't say what I felt, then I'd feel like my opinion wouldn't count, and what I thought wouldn't make a difference. Keith: How would you feel if your most important right were taken away? Bill: How would I feel if children were not given the right to express their opinions? [Great question, Keith, ask Patti as well ;-) ] Very upset, because adults are in the position to make decisions about the way the world is changing. If kids couldn't contribute to these decisions then they will eventually inherit a world that might be in a hopeless state... As adults they too might not allow their children to express their opinions and so it would continue... :-( But let's hope that never happens! Mike Burleigh: Hi Keith and friends We have just had a lovely chinese meal to celebrate our sons 18th birthday and I see you have been involved in a really excellent discussion with Will parks Keith: I feel that this world is begining to fall apart, just the other day in Florida, they almost killed an Ireland man for money. Bill: These problems have been going on for a long time, Keith. The world has so far stood up to all things we humans have done, and are doing to eachother and the world itself. The question is whether the world can take any more. That's why it's important for people like you and Maggie to learn about the problems sooner rather than later, set your minds thinking about how to solve them so that when you're older, you'll be ready to set too and get solving. I hope you don't feel that the world's falling apart. Never give up trying to help solve the problems. ;-) You're not alone in trying to help and the numbers of people who are now thinking about helping the world recover are growing all the time. Get your friends to join you.... Keith:I don't think the world is falling apart I just think people don't care anymore. Maggie: Keith's mom came, so we're just saying goodbye. Bill: I agree, Keith. Let's try and make them care.. ;-) Bill: Ok, great to speak to you both. Maybe speak to you again soon.. Maggie: I'm still here! Bill: Sorry, Maggie. I thought you were both leaving ;-) Glad you like the saying. What do you think it means? Maggie: I like your saying. I've never heard it before. Maggie: Why not teach a man and a woman and they'll feed the nation? Maggie: When we were talking about war, I was thinking about something but didn't get a chance to write it. There were a couple of pages about war in our religion book at school, and someone had a sign that said, " War doesn't decide who's right, just who's left." Maggie: Why not teach a man and a woman and they'll feed the nation? Bill: Heh, I like your new version. But very often women are the only ones who educate the children... That's not to say that men don't help as well, and that's why your version is a clever modification Maggie: When we were talking about war, I was thinking about something but didn't get a chance to write it. There were a couple of pages about war in our religion book at school, and someone had a sign that said, " War doesn't decide who's right, just who's left." Bill: Ummm.. that's an interesting saying. That also refers to an article in the convention! Try and find the one that refers to what should happen after wars... Maggie: I think that it depends on what kind of education your talking about. Maybe men educate kids more about life, and women more from a different point of view. Maggie: What have you planned for us next week? Bill: Ahaaah! Next week, we'll have a look at 'water', the way we use it, the way we waste it, and why it's so important... But that's another story ;-) How about asking Patti and me about our memories as kids...? Maggie: I think that it depends on what kind of education your talking about. Maybe men educate kids more about life, and women more from a different point of view. Bill: That's a very good point, Maggie. Speaking of education, what do you think education should provide/aim to achieve? Patti: Bill, We are here but Mike and Mikael are too and we are trying to respond to all of you. This has been great... I will have to leave in a little bit...10-15 minutes. Maggie: I think that education should teach you things that you will need in life. Oscar had good ideas... Mike Burleigh: I value my right to control my own life and to speak my own mind but I have been given an education to make me sensitive to the lives and minds of others. Bill: Welcome back, Mike. I'd like to think that our right concerning education is to always keep learning and to help others share our experiences... Bill: Hi, Mikael Patti: Bill, We have to leave....this has been great... Maggie has enjoyed our one-on-one (or maybe 'one-on-two'). This was easier to follow for the kids... Next week! ;-) Bill: Glad to have you all here. Don't mention food to me, Mike. My tum is rumbling with the thought! Bill: Any answers yet Maggie? Patti: Bill, Maggie will reply to you during the week... she has to leave now... This was fun...thanks Patti: Bill, Mike and Mikael... This has been great....must go...I'm off to the shops with a 14 year old daughter looking for a dress for the dance! ;-) Patti: hugs from Patti and Maggie Bill: Bye Patti. Speak to you again soon. The pleasure was mine. Bill: Bye Maggie and Patti, Great to speak to you. Next week - water... Perhaps our conversations could go to KIDPROJ? Have a good Saturday and Sunday... Patti: Yes, Bill...our conversation should go to KIDPROJ. I need the log of it... I'll work on it tonight. Thanks! Bill: Bye one and all. Hunger has got the better of me so I better get to the shops before they close, otherwise I'll be eating my pillows! Leave any messages you need to re: tonight's discussion. I'll help tomorrow if needed. Cheerio, -------------------------------------------------------------------